Do you think, in a sense, Pay Day is almost a reaction against current design trends? Because guns are almost used as a last resort?
I think so. Certainly when I look at Battlefield 3, less so with Bad Company 2, those were binary situations. Select what to do, do it. Do you shoot him or - well actually you shoot him, or else you can't progress, in that case progression is linked to shooting him. But it's funny because I think your impressions of the thing are - I mean how much stealth time did you actually have in your match?
Not too much...
Yeah, but you got the sense that there is a space in which it could have gone differently. And that took so long, and so many smart people to sort that shit out.
It must have been so hard, to get those parallel strands running so that you could do it both ways.
Yeah, I don't know how we did it, actually. It's not like we have the resources of a big studio. But we have amazing people. Co-operative stealth is just like 'pshhh!' [puts pistol finger to head, pulls trigger] - just kill yourself immediately. If you pitch that to a publisher, I think they'd strangle you immediately. I think Splinter Cell is doing it though, but very differently to how we are.
Yeah it is. The thing that really comes through here though is the heist fantasy. For anyone who ever wanted to be Tony Montana or Walter White, it's totally there.
Oh you're going to really like this game. We actually have a meth job, which is crazy. There's a lot of stuff, but Breaking Bad is a big influence. Yeah, I can't wait.
If you're going for influences, it's a pretty good one to have.
The best one.
So, the first Payday was PC and PS3 only. What spurred the decision to make Pay Day 2 for Xbox as well?
It was too big! [laughs] No, I mean we wanted as many people to play it as possible and it just felt like this was the right time; it's the end of the console life, there's a big install base, it plays really well on the 360. It just seemed like, "well, we're going to do it on every platform so let's do it on every platform".
Is that why you had to release on disc?
The problem with the original digital release plan was that they have a limit of, I think it's 2.4GB or something. And our release is like 14GB. So that wasn't happening. [laughs] So we were like, "OK we're not going to be Xbox Live". Originally we were Xbox Live, pfff. So it became - when we started really working on it just after I got there, I think it became more and more clear, as the days passed, that the game was just [makes expanding motions with hands] and then it was just huge. So there was nothing we could do to get it on all platforms but to have it for retail.
There are plenty of online only or co-op only titles coming to next generation platforms. Do you think we're approaching the end of single player, in a way?
I f**king hope not. That would really make me sad. I don't think so, I don't think so. I think the thing is - it's a commitment. I think you're going to see - if I had to hazard a guess - you're going to see fewer games launch that have both of those things, and more games that are trying to develop one or the other.
Ok, last question, are there any plans to add more professions as DLC?
There's like a year of DLC planned.
You need to get a female character in there.
I know, actually that's one of the first things I have on my list, is to make sure we get a female character. I'm hoping - I don't know if we'll get it as our first DLC, because we'd have to redo all the animations so it doesn't look like a dude walking around with a female body. But I'd like to do that.
Good to hear. Because I hate to be the female journalist that brings it up -
No, no, no, it's legit. I've said it, I have two daughters.
But it's also - you don't want people throwing it in for the sake of it...
Believe me, I have said this and we've talked about it, so I think it will happen, it's just a question of when on the timeline. Because I want, like I said, I want my daughters to be able to - no, I'd need to wait a bit for that - but in theory, it'd be cool for them to mask up. I just think it'd be cool if we had both, that's all. It's definitely on our list. One of the many things that are on our list.